Overcome Anxiety Like a Hero - Author Thomas Wurm

Thomas M. Wurm has spent the last thirteen years on the frontlines as a wildland firefighter, and he knows what it feels like for fear to relentlessly course through his body.  He has personally overcome his battle with daily anxiety through blood, sweat, tears, dirt, and ash. Tom will teach you how to tap into the Hero Within and overcome anxiety with confidence. Your mental and physical health will improve as you uncover the strategies to live a peaceful existence.

Get the book! https://amzn.to/36YsbXN

In Overcome Anxiety Like a Hero, you will learn. 

• How to expand your situational awareness to erase fear before it erases you
• How to own your anxiety so you can become confident in life
• The best strategies build a routine that destroys anxiety every morning
  
  
• How to journal like an Incident Commander to document your progress
• What it feels like to master flow at the moment and conquer your anxiety 

In this groundbreaking book, you will embark on a Hero's Journey and emerge with a sense of being healthy, safe, and happy. Along the way, you will hear heroic stories of wildland firefighting and the ways in which these principles of wildland fire apply to your fight with everyday fear. The journey you are about to experience exhilarating and deeply transformative on many personal levels. This is your call to action because this book will forever change your outlook on fear. 

Go to AbbyBolt.com for more information on this and many other controversial subjects surrounding moral courage in the workplace and what it means to Lead with F.I.R.E.

Email me at abby@upinflames.org if you have an experience you would like to share or are in need of a resource. If I can't help, I will point you in the direction of someone who can.
 
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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

[inaudible].

Abby: 0:02

"My mind was racing with every possible outcome including death and maiming that a falling tree could have on a human. Resistance deeply pulled at me. I was scared and multiple times the resistance tried to talk me out of the fighting the fire raging in front of me. I kept thinking, my saw isn't sharp. I'm dehydrated and tired. I could cut down the tree tomorrow. We could just burn it down. Every possible thought of resistance was turning the tide in my mind. I stood up to the resistance and with deep breaths, I focused on my personal power and confidence. I visualized my cuts going perfectly. I own this tree and this fire." Now please join me you guys on this very special Up in Flames' episode with Thomas Wurm, new author and all around amazing human being. This is Abby Bolt and I am so honored today to get to talk to Thomas Wurm, who is not only a wild land firefighter, but he is now a published author of"Overcome Anxiety like a Hero". Thomas, welcome to the podcast.

Thomas: 1:20

Wow. Thank you so much for having me today. I'm so excited to be, you know, part of the podcast here and talk to your community today.

Abby: 1:29

Well I think'cause I think my community is totally your community. So that's, you know, that's what really caught my eye when I saw this kind of coming along. And of course battling battling anxiety is, is near and dear to me. Yeah. So Thomas actually was a wild land for, are you still fighting fire or is that something you're still involved in?

Thomas: 1:50

So yeah, I have actually started my own business. Uh, it's called Mountain Mind Tricks and it's really focused on life coaching, uh, guided meditation, fitness training and, and really a holistic approach to helping people transform their anxiety into a full happy life. And they're just being healthy, safe and happy as is the end state.

Abby: 2:10

That's amazing. Because that's, I really started digging deep into the things that you're doing and I can see that your time as a wild land firefighter was definitely an inspiration. And I'm going to want to ask you about that. But then I want to, I just want to read through a little piece of the book that captured me and I'm gonna, I'm going to read it as I'm reading it and feeling it. And then I want you to tell me about that. You have several chapters here, cause I'd also like to talk about your quiz that you have in there, which I thought was super interesting. So in chapter 3 I believe it is, there's a piece where you're talking in here about a day where you were cutting and you were on this saw you're a faller. Okay, here it is."So without hesitation, I started sizing up the tree, making a plan on how and why I would cut down this tree". But the daylight was fading fast. It was dusk at point. So I had little free time, little time to formulate a perfect plan. My heart was racing, my palms were sweaty, and fear was turning my stomach inside out as I started my chainsaw. My mind was racing with every possible outcome, including death and maiming that a falling tree could have on a human. Resistance deeply pulled at me. I was scared and multiple times the resistance tried to talk me out of fighting the fire raging in front of me and I kept thinking, my saw isn't sharp. I'm dehydrated and tired. I could cut down the tree tomorrow. We could just burn it down. Every possible thought or resistance was turning the tide in my mind. I stood up to the resistance and with deep breaths I focused on my personal power and confidence. I visualized my cuts going perfectly. I own this tree and this fire." Now that's, I want to just read like all the paragraphs in this piece because I love it. And it of course it speaks to me a lot. But that just gives me like some insight of where you pulled from, from your career. So tell me about that. Tell me where this comes from and where it led to you.

Thomas: 3:59

Yeah. So really just throughout my career there is so many experiences like that where it's, you know, everything doesn't go perfectly, it's going to be a bad outcome or maybe not so good. And I always felt like I really, as soon as I felt that flow state, everything worked out and for some reason of best I ever performed was when it was, I had to do it. Now I had to do it perfectly where it was like for death. And for some reason that flow state that I went into, I just, everything went perfectly. You know, that tree that day, uh, everything worked out perfectly fine and just go into that flow state. And so I really took that, that most things start to examine that and research it and, and read about it. And um, I worked with, uh, uh, Matt Bell Larry. Other podcast hosts. Uh, he's then athlete is kind of his platform and went deeper into flow state. And, and really performance performance and so and yeah, it just really helped me overcome anxiety. When I started going deeper, I realized that this low state is the secret to overcoming anxiety. It's what we all want is the flowing with ease and confidence and just to be content with the moment right now. Uh, that's really what I came through with my wildland fire career was just being content right now. And if you can do, if the one seconds and you've won the anxiety paddle. You can really think that one second, expand it to five seconds and then keep building for five minutes and then several days. Right. Keep going

Abby: 5:32

And then we are talking about, you know, anxieties and fears and outcomes in a pretty high, you know, risk intense job. But give me an example of how it doesn't, it doesn't have to apply to a crazy intense job. It's just daily life. Like what are some anxiety challenges that people are fighting with every day?

Thomas: 5:53

Um, so really it's, you know, people have anxiety about, you know, how other people are judging them. So social situations. Or uh, you know, being good enough at work or having that self worth self confidence. Just feeling anxiety of being themselves and really honoring themselves. For me, that's, that's what I see the most is people have this anxiety'cause there's a, there's a conflict inside them of. They know who they really are, but they're not seeing it in their life. And I think that's a really big part of feeling anxiety.

Abby: 6:26

Right. I see what you're saying. You know, people's, like the tree, the saw the whole situation of that one piece that you described, like in someone's life, that could be school. It could be work, it could be marriage. It could be anything. It's just whatever that, whatever that challenge is in your life that you need to overcome, it could be sickness. Um, you know, it's not, that's where you pull that deep inspiration, but people realize and clearly through your, your coaching profession and what you're turning this into, you're able to help people across the lines. All the way. I mean, every walk of life you're able to help with that experience. Right?

Thomas: 7:06

Yeah. And really, you know, of course I can relate the wild land firefighters the most. But this, this idea of the fire, the fire inside, near the fire, inside somebody, the things it, it's, it's uh, you know, in the book I talk about, you know, joining together to become a fear fighter. That could be anybody in any situation. It's all just a metaphor. The firefighting, the last 13 years, my life is a metaphor for what I'm doing now for my clients.

Abby: 7:34

Right. And the beginning of your book, you have an anxiety quiz and I'm just gonna run through these questions. I'm not going to answer them because probably don't want to hear my answers cause most of them are yes. In some way. And then I would want, then I would end up wanting to know how, I have a whole bunch of years suggestions from that. But I'm going to, um, I've almost finished reading your book and I'm going to, it's more of a workbook. It's really an interactive book and that's why I've read through it and I now I need to go back through it much slower and really massage all of the things that you have in there and take them in and work with them. The anxiety quizzes, number one is, Are you restless and on edge all day? Number two, is your gut always telling you that something bad is about to happen? Number three, do you have an uncontrollable feeling of worry? Are you irritable about the little things? Or do you have a hard time focusing during the day? Five, do you wish you were able to get more sleep? Six,, do you have difficulty speaking up in social interactions with unfamiliar people? Seven,are you deathly afraid of something in everyday life? Eight, do you feel like you are dying going crazy or out of control? And in after number eight you mentioned if you answered yes to this question, you may need professional care, which I think it's amazing that you stuck that in there because it is a great for people to think about.

Thomas: 8:56

Yeah, so really all those questions like that. When I was deep in my anxiety during, this is all the stuff that I was feeling, you know, and um, you know, it's against my journey later, but really just the everyday I really thought I was dying. I had a more of a hypochondriac type anxiety and it's just driving me crazy, you know? And, and a lot of these things are exactly what I was feeling. And you know, sleep is probably the biggest, uh, biggest sign for me and what I've seen clients is the sleep is really interrelated to the anxiety.

Abby: 9:33

Absolutely. You can't shut your mind off. Right. That's usually the biggest culprit. And so often we either battle with that insomnia, which is usually brought on by anxiety and sit there all night and make things worse or we end up using medication to help us sleep. And you know, and some people medicate with things that are definitely not healthy and everyone wants to learn how to be able to sleep more soundly and it's, it definitely isn't just about laying down. It's about a whole life method, I would think.

Thomas: 10:02

Yeah. Really. You know, that's something I didn't really mention that book too much as just this is a natural alternative path to anxiety and overcoming anxiety. And there's no doubt in my mind, I'm not a health professional. So finding means for the medication that it really is an epidemic right now. There is other method to try before medication possibly. Um, but really it is a holistic approach and, and you know, in my coaching methods it's really like building a team of, you know, maybe acupuncture if there, um, guided meditations and coaching with journaling, with food choices, with a fitness program. It's really a whole full lifestyle changes. It's really the only way to overcome anxiety wherever it is you change your state of being.

Abby: 10:54

Yeah, it's, I'm, I struggle with it every day. I know there's so many changes I need to make. There's changes I have made that have really made a difference in my life and it's not as easy as it sounds. And definitely getting some guidance, whether it's self help books or coaching or something. And it's, it's not easy to do on your own. And I really don't know many people that have been able to make those changes in their life, truly by themselves. I think people find, they reach out and find people like you or you know, whether they read a book or they get inspiration from somewhere, everyone's getting inspiration and, and they're learning something somewhere. And so I just love that you're able to put all this into words. And so tell me, you know, I read through to like your acknowledgements of the appreciation of your wife and some other people in your life and your mother and you know, you talked about your journey. So tell me more about your journey. What, what were those challenges for you and where were you finding yourself?

Thomas: 11:51

Yeah, so really, uh, everything was pretty normal, you know, wild land, firefighting life. And then, let's see, 20 a couple of years ago anyway, um, my best friend passed away suddenly at age 40. Wow. And it really just shocked me to the core. It's my first experience with death, really close to me. And what's really interesting is that it brought up all of these experiences that I had as a teenager where I had near death experiences. And it really brought that all, all of the front of my life. And it's just right there all over again. Like I was 15 and I had to really grapple with yeah. And really deal with that. Um, and this led me to meditation and yoga and she gone. And really the anxiety was just like, I really thought I was like having this crazy thoughts. A lot of, you know, I think I'm sick. I think I have this, I think I have this, you know, the web MD syndrome type thing. Well, and then I kept going deeper into meditation and I had a, um, some might describe what the Kundalini type experience. Where a instant awakening type experience that just really launched me out of my body. And, and uh, I, I guess I got a download the universe in a way. Um, and when I came back from that, my health problems were way worse. My anxiety was way worse, but it started that they like my feeling journey. And I knew what I had to do and it was a solid six months to a year of, of acupuncture and journaling and uh, working with my, um, Chinese doctor on, on a weekly basis on mind body spirit that really helps me come around with no food choices, with herbs, with meditation, with um, you know, we did some, some shamonic journeying with, with the doctor, um, where like a hypnosis type thing. I'm still really a full spectrum of mind, body, spirit and from all of that I really feel like the anxiety or our emotional state, it's all energy. And when we can tap into that energy and change that energy, what we want to scream, you can really take control of our, of our minds and our emotions. And that whole experience just really drove me to do my researching on, I'm really a whole spectrum of anxiety and you know, I know I'm not the only one that experienced anxiety. I wanted to learn more how I could help people. And, and really this book came, uh, very suddenly to me in the middle of the night I woke up. That's when I got to have to write a book right now.

Abby: 14:40

[inaudible] weird.

Thomas: 14:41

Um, and so yeah, there's, there's um, there's I guess some divine energy behind it. Yeah.

Abby: 14:49

That's pretty cool. Now when you say you woke up and you're like, Oh my God, I have to write this book. Like what did that take? Like what, what kind of a commitment did that take to make this book happen?

Thomas: 14:58

Oh wow. Yeah, I'm really, I got a shout out to self published schools that I kinda, yeah, I enrolled in self published school. That's the online program that really teaches you how to, has this whole map out of, you know, write your book in 30 days in an edited. And then on the whole, honestly, the hardest part is getting it published and launched like correctly. There's so much marketing and so much stuff out there that you can get hung up on, but they're writing for me. It's, um, I think in the back of the book, um, I want to give it away too much, but there's, there's, for me, writing is low state and I really found it through writing and

Abby: 15:36

yeah, when I saw your examples of the flow, cause you talk about athletes and then um, you know, some different things. Then you mentioned like reading people can find the flow in that and then I can see how you would as writing too. I can, I get that.

Thomas: 15:50

Yeah. It just feels so good to me to write, you know, there's, I can be in any situation if I'm writing. I'm gonna be happy and flowing and just my anxiety is going to be gone that moment.

Abby: 16:01

And I get your, I get your mission of like, you know, you want this to count for something. All this work that you've done, all this effort that you've made, you know, that there's other people out there dealing with it. And to be able to pay that forward and help others is just, it's remarkable. And I think it's so great that you're doing that. And so through this journey that what you've been doing to help others, do you have any examples you can share with us of someone else who is, who has been facing some challenges and you were able to help them through that and, and see them to the other side?

Thomas: 16:31

Yeah, really it's, uh, I've had a couple clients that have been, you know, lacking purpose or searching for purpose and really trying to find their true purpose in life. And like I said earlier, one of the, for me, I think what I've seen most commonly is that lack of purpose or mission or drive, it's a, it is the deepest level of anxiety as for some people and helping them build their vision, you know, like build a clear picture and really focused on that visualization of yourself in the future and what you want. What do you want to manifest, what you see your highest potential as. And really, you know, helping those clients get to that and transform the state of things, actually be able to achieve that highest potential is, I have seen that declined so far is, uh, it's, it's remarkable to see the transformation and all the love that they receive and how happy they are. It's great.

Abby: 17:34

That's gotta be really rewarding.

Thomas: 17:37

Yeah. Yeah, it does feel pretty good. I can't lie.

Abby: 17:40

Yeah, that's great. I mean that's, that's sometimes, you know, money does not equal success. It's feeling that, you know, knowing that you've helped someone is very, very valuable. You can't put a price on that and know your book seems more like a workbook or, I mean, it has kind of a workbook type feel to it. So tell me your thoughts around that and how people can use it to help themselves.

Thomas: 18:04

Yeah, so I'm thinking inspiration from that. Uh, maybe you've read the book, extreme ownership on that book has really, you know, when I read it, I was just shocked. Like, Oh wow, I need to take ownership of myself. Every situation is on me. This is my reality. And really what I try and set, you know right in the first couple of pages is is this is your journey. Nobody can help you except for yourself. And you have to work, you have to work at this and you have to really like take a stand and, and work your, it's pretty, it's a hard journey. It's a hero's journey. It's like every great story of every movie, every comic book cause its exact things were in line. And that's the structure of the metaphor here is there are certain stages of anxiety that you're going to go through and it all takes work and you have to write and you have to think and really go through each stage and feel it and move past it. You have to work with, for sure. It takes time and effort to do this. As a coach, you know, I'm facilitating and supporting people, but ultimately it's on them to change, to change that state of being and anxiety to healthy, safe and happy.

Abby: 19:24

That's, I like that. Yeah. And it's not like someone can just say, here, fix this for me. This isn't a car. And we're taken to the shop. This is much deeper than that. And it's, it's hard. It's really hard to stay committed to something like that. It's so much easier to go fix something or, you know, go paint that wall or go, you know, repair, whatever. And it's hard to fix ourselves cause we have to stick with it. And I'm, I'm, I succeed and fail at it daily. Like every day I find places where I'm like, okay, gotta get better at this. And then I get worse at that. And it's like, you know, like this morning I'm like, I swear I'm going to get up at five and do yoga. I was not there. Right. I didn't do it. You know, I failed. And it's like, okay, I'm going to do better tomorrow. Like, I'm going to try harder tomorrow. And that's, you know, that's all we can do sometimes. Now that,

Thomas: 20:13

Nope.

Abby: 20:13

What's that?

Thomas: 20:15

Oh, that's good. There's no failure. There's only feedback. Right,

Abby: 20:18

right. Oh, I like that. I'm going to, I'm going to write that on my wall. I remind myself that every day, all the feedback I give myself for sure. Um, the you use like for the example in here, like Maslow's pyramid, could you describe that to us a little bit?

Thomas: 20:33

Yeah, so really it's uh, all levels of life it's been out that's getting on or getting to in and really it's every level of life that physical, financial, spiritual, behavioral, mental, uh, really every level of our life is built upon. The structure below that and you know, the basics is are, are shelter, food and water and air, you know, the basic survival physiological things. And as you move up it does get a little bit more abstract. And really, you know, in the book I really call out is feeling safe is one of the main tenants and that you're man and without feeling safe, it's really hard to find that pyramid into achieve your highest potential. And as Madla describes it, you're self actualization or you know, being truly happy in consensus, the end state of that, of that pyramid scale and really that not feeling safe. This is a limiting factor. Yeah. And it's, it's

Abby: 21:36

and tell me so that, that safety, that security, a body of employment, of resources and morality or of the family of health or property. So you know, that that feeling, you know, a lot of people feel like, well, I feel safe. Like I don't, I don't feel like anybody's going to hurt me right now. Or, you know, I don't feel like I'm gonna fall off of anything. I mean, that's the, the feeling of safety and Maslow's pyramid is it's much more intricate than some people think, you know? Um, so there, yeah, security of body, is my body safe? Am I going to get attacked? Am I gonna? But then there's like, of employment of resources, like describe to me how people can feel unsafe. It's not just about like cutting down a tree,

Thomas: 22:15

right? It's, yeah. It's not necessarily physical. It's the be your self body image, but you're actually seeing in your own mind of yourself or like you've spent employment of no financial security. You don't feel safe financially. It's pretty hard to, uh, you know, feel loved and belonging and not having enough resources or unsure of morality. You know, the family, the household environments, not the best, knowing you're not gonna feel safe and health and prosperity. It's all really tied into that feeling. Anything free and available to go to that next step of love and belonging.

Abby: 22:55

Now, when you were struggling, what, what was it on the safety level? Do you know? Like what are you able to pinpoint looking backs and things that made you feel unsafe?

Thomas: 23:06

Really my biggest struggle is I had like this recurring thoughts and one of the biggest thoughts I had was like, I have a brain to like, I could not stop thinking that wow. I just repeated over and over and over. Like I can't pay attention in conversations. I couldn't really work very well, just like this thought was just so embedded in my mind that I was like, my gosh, I'm not gonna get sick from this. You know? Um, and really having, I just didn't feel safe in my body. Like I was dying. I truly believed that for a while that I was dying. I didn't feel safe in my own. I didn't feel safe with my health. Um, and really what helped me overcome that specific thing was with affirmations. And really, you know, in the book I talk about situational awareness and of your mind and becoming the witness, really realizing that, no, I'm not my thoughts, I'm something else than that. And I can control my thoughts and the affirmations. You know, erase my thought, I'll have a brain tumor. I would just come right back instantly with, you know, I'm healthy, safe and happy. And I repeated that to myself for thousands of times a day. So one day I just, I actually send that to myself throughout the entire night of dreaming and the next day that thought was gone forever. It's so crazy. But you know, that's looks like a couple months of affirmation for that to happen.

Abby: 24:34

A friend of mine who I interviewed on the other podcast that went through one of the shootings, so she was dealing with trauma and she, you know, that the smallest thing that helped her when she would really fall apart with anxiety, it was really about loud noises. It sounded like gunshots and she learned it from her therapist. Something so simple as just like stepping back and you know, telling herself and her outer self saying like, you're okay, I'm okay. We're okay. And like getting through that anxiety and she was like that simple affirmation of getting myself to understand that we're okay. You know? And she said that that right there was a huge answer.

Thomas: 25:17

Right? Yeah. Just your mind really likes to play tricks on you claims especially with anxiety and it's really becoming that witnessed and in thinking controllers, huge steps towards it's feeling safe in your own mind. Yeah.

Abby: 25:32

And I see some of your, the root causes that you talk about, food sensitivities, nutrient deficiencies, stress. I mean everybody, we all feel like, Oh it's gotta be just cause of my stress and um, hidden infections, which I really liked that and thyroid dysfunction. So there's so much more to it and people need to check out your book because you have so much valuable information here. I mean, I could interview you for hours and hours and hours and basically make this like a giant coaching teaching session. Cause it would be, I can tell you're just full of information, like everything that you have in here. And I was telling you before we started, jumped on the recording that your book is really easy for me to flow through because it's hard for me to read a book cause I, my mind wander so much. And the way you put your book together I think is great because it, it captures me the way it's broken down. Um, I'm able to go back and forth and, and find things that do, that I do need to learn from. And then, um, and it just, the way you have it broken down and now I know I'm probably gonna need to go through it like five or six times because I look and I'm like, Oh, I need to, you know, once I've learned a little bit more than I need to bounce back and reference what it is you're talking about in another chapter and then answer the questions that you have. Like one a question that I'm looking at right now is so exactly how do you overcome resistance, in you know, you're asking and it talks and then it talks about some ideas and it's like, well, do you have to know what do I need to do to overcome resistance? What are my resistances? And so your book just really helps a lot of forward thinking and for ourselves. And it's clearly it's individual for everyone. I mean, there's no, your life and what your answers are to your anxiety is completely different than mine and different than the guy next door. So this is a very valuable piece and I what a blessing that you took the time or you woke up in the middle of the night and felt you had to make it.

Thomas: 27:15

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It's uh, yeah. Back to the root causes. This is, this is something I dove deep in the research and really working with, um, my Chinese doctor and acupuncture and Eastern medicine really found this is so valuable that there's so many different things to the mind, body, spirit that's going on that, you know, sometimes we really need, you know, you need a team of professionals like acupuncturists, a medical doctor, a coach, you know, to really, in your case you only got to build a team to overcome this. And that's, you know, all these root causes are really come out of Eastern medicine. And my experience with working with a Chinese medicine, how deep, you know, when you go to the Chinese doctor, it's like a not a 15 minute am I look at my computer and take notes. It's more of a three hour or deal with the mind body. You're it.

Abby: 28:14

Yeah. Let me break that. Let me just, let me just ask you the question like a naive, like what the hell kind of person, you know, you hear somebody like, Oh you go to a Chinese doctor or whatever. You know, we get so stuck in this Western medicine thing. And so I, I know all the discussion behind this, but I want to just find and ask you so you can debunk it really simple for some people that might hear this and think it's a bunch of baloney, you know, tell me the difference between Western and Eastern medicine and the value. You've kind of described it throughout, but just give me the like the cliff notes of like why it's so important to have your mind open to it.

Thomas: 28:46

Yeah, so really the first thing is there's a lot of science that goes from quantum mechanics to health to um, medicine that really our thoughts and our emotions are so tied to our body that, you know, like I said before, like I, I had our brain tumor. Like that is a real concern. Like if you think that all the time it's going to happen to you, like these thoughts are real, they do have a manifestation if they linger long enough and, and Eastern medicine really does take that into account of your emotion. Okay. And you're really angry. Say, well, the acupuncturist is going to see that, Oh, your liver is really lit up and you need these needles. It's clear that energy as you're so angry, your liver is like overtaxed with that. Emotionally, every organ is tied to an emotion in Eastern medicine. And that sounds, that sounds so weird, but the way the body works is emotional. It's mental. It's if the whole human existence is a holistic organism, it's not just nowhere. Western medicine is, boy, you can just take this pill for anxiety and it's going to change your thoughts. It's going to change the way you feel. And that's just not really correct in my mind. There is some, you know, chemical imbalances that, that Western medicine can work with. And again, this is my opinion. Um, I really do believe in Eastern medicine, in junction with Western medicine is really a true, uh, test the time when we do need those ancient wisdoms and we do need modern science. We need to put those together. We really have something carpool but to the gate either or, it's not really successful in my experience. And I really do think that foundations should be alternative medicine and really gone to that consciousness level of what am I thinking? What am I feeling? How is that affecting my body? How is that affecting my relationship? My claim answers your whole life spectrum of what you know, this consciousness feeling, thought, experience. How is that affecting my reality right now? That's Eastern medicine.

Abby: 30:52

I don't know. I don't know why that's like striking an emotional cord with me cause it's like I hear you talk about it and my mind starts to real through different things that I struggle with. And um, you know, and I, I know that I need to do better about practicing more of the natural medicine and, and I'm not, I may just say I'm gonna ask you a personal question of something that I'm struggling with and maybe some other people do too, and see what, like your thoughts are like how I can immediately, you know, how I can subside from some, the anxieties. Let me give you an example of something that I just dealt with this weekend and it's happens every time that I do. This is, so I go to the high country of, to the wilderness, take horses. And what I love about it, well obviously there's so many, I mean the list is forever, but besides all of the regular things about being outdoors and really when you talk about flow, my flow is being in the woods with the horses. You know, you have to be so focused on this G, this giant beast that could kill you at any moment if they take the wrong step or change their mind about something. But I'm up there and that's like my Zin. That's where I like to be and I can shut off and my phone doesn't work up there and I'm just chopped off from all of the anxieties that I leave back home. And I'm able to, like, there's some PTSD stuff I deal with and there's some other things and I'm, for some reason I can just block it out and it's gone. It's not that I'm even blocking, it just floats away. And then when it's time to pack up and it's time to go back down into service, like the night before, I can't sleep. I get really stressed and irritable and I mean I literally go into like a little depression packing up and then driving down the mountain and then my next day is just like, it's not, there's anything terrible waiting for me. It's just all of the life stressors and I can't, I'm trying to find that medium of like the Zen of being up there and then going back into it, but floating back into it to where it's not so depressing. Does that make any sense to you or is that it's just happens to be a challenge. I'm just hit up against the wall with and I'm like, what do I do about this?

Thomas: 32:52

Yeah, that is, that is so common in our modern day. It's uh, everybody has that same reaction and it's, it is physiological. It is mental. And, and really what's going on is, is in my mind, the first thing is being outdoors and in nature and it's the negative ions from the earth. It actually really does those negative ions really do work with the body and change your energy system and actually ground you. So your energy is actually flowing to the earth and it's, you know, you maybe you've seen the word grounding. It's kind of like a hype word right now, but it really is so important to be.

Abby: 33:26

Yeah, I've studied that. So I answered that.

Thomas: 33:28

Yeah. Walking out doors barefoot and really just breathing in the natural air and you know, seeing the trees and the colors. And then on top of that, there's the sunlight aspect that really our circadian rhythm is so awesome. All the technology and all the computers and all the blue lights that no, our circadian rhythms are so off that when we go out to the earth it's like you can sleep perfectly. We feel better. We have so much more vibrant life than us. Um, and then another, another aspect to it is, you know, there, there is science coming on this and uh, the wife by the five G, the whole spectrum of radio waves that we get blasted with every day in our modern world is it does have an effect on us. And you know, the way to really mitigate that is grounding every morning having like a, a small meditation practice or, or first thing when you've got side and I've got bed first thing in the morning, the glass of water and just like taking that stone in and just enjoy that moment. First thing. Um, that was really the start your circadian rhythm and get it syncs the sun but grounding is in those negative ions is so important and there's devices that you can do in your house but really there's nothing better than like going outside there but then just breathing wonderful right now.

Abby: 34:46

I love that and I just, yeah, I need to be more mindful of those things. I think cause I even live, I live in a very a natural place. If you call a bunch of baby goats screaming at you everyday natural and you know, all of that stuff. But um, I mean, I live on a ranch and you know, the outdoors and the dirt is definitely something that I am one with, but I just have to find a way to, I've been trying to do better about miracle mornings and you know, be more mindful in the morning and take time to reflect. And that just reading your book already is just giving me like, just starting your book gave me a lot of motivation and so I'm really glad that we connected and tell me, tell me how people can work with you more in the future. Like what can they do to learn more from you or to um, you know, take advantage of the resources that you have?

Thomas: 35:33

Yeah, so the first thing they can go to my website, it's mountain mind tricks.com or they can, uh, send me an email and that's a transformation and their sports specialist@mountainmindtricks.com or they can find me at mountain mind tricks on Facebook. And that's the best way to contact me or shoot me an email. Yeah, I definitely would love to work with people in their anxiety and help more, much as I can and let time is likely before I want to help many people. It's like cancel.

Abby: 36:05

Awesome. And where is the best place? So you mentioned those websites and then where all the different places where they can purchase your book.

Thomas: 36:11

So Amazon is primarily, and there's uh, if you just go into the search bar and build up books and then I can overcome anxiety, like zero, it should pop up or if you search my name, you should get my author page. Yep. There's, there's a Kindle and a paperback version out

Abby: 36:30

and I have the Kindle and I already know that I want the paper back also because I want to make notes, I need to do some serious dog earring and flagging and noting. And so, cause like you said, it's kind of more of a workbook and then, um, so I'm wanting it on paper for sure. And I want to do some future interviews with you and really kind of do more micro breakdown things of some of this stuff that people are struggling with. And cause a lot of this podcast is stressful. Like a lot of it is about stressors and people that are under stress and their reactions. And that's what causes so many of the, you know, the difficulties going on in a lot of our workplace lives in our personal lives. So I am hoping that you will do some more interviews with me in the future.

Thomas: 37:08

Oh, of course. I'd love to come back and you know when you do buy the book you get a free guided meditation for anxiety is included in there. So don't, don't miss that.

Abby: 37:18

Okay. I won't now where, where are we talking from? Where are you at right now? I forgot to ask.

Thomas: 37:23

I am, I am in a Bitterroot Valley, Montana, just South of Missoula.

Abby: 37:28

Oh, how sad. So ugly there. It must be terrible.

Thomas: 37:30

I have finally got our first, uh, first year degrees left.

Abby: 37:34

Oh, I was going to ask you how the winter is hitting already.

Thomas: 37:38

Yup. Yup. Good folded smelling already, but it's a beautiful place.

Abby: 37:41

Oh, the Bitterroot. Yep, they're on. I used to live in Hamilton and Victor and up in Darby. So yeah, it's a beautiful, beautiful area. Well Thomas, I thank you so much because I could just keep going and going and, but I want people to see your book, check it out, reach out to you because I know that we are just barely flickering some ideas in people's minds and a lot of people are gonna want to go much deeper. So thank you very much. And everybody get out there, checkout Thomas' book on Amazon, check out his website. All this information will be in the show notes. And what he really could probably use from all of us is some reviews. So be sure to go on amazon.com leave him a review. You can read it in any way and leave him a review. Or even if you've just seen another friend's copy or you've seen part of it, you can still go on there and leave a review. Um, even about this, just learning what you did today about his book, you can leave a review on there. So please do that. And with that, Thomas, thank you so much for being with us. Is there anything else that you'd like to add?

Thomas: 38:42

Uh, no. I think that's it. I think we did pretty good and thank you so much for, for having me and look forward to more interviews. We'll talk to[inaudible].

Abby: 38:50

That sounds great. Thanks again, Thomas Warren for being here with us on up in flames and to everyone out there, please take a look at Thomas's book. It's literally a life changer, maybe being a life saver. So please check that out and remember that up in flames is powered by you. I need your support. I need your help. Please help me cover the cost of making all of this happen. Go to patrion.com/up in flames podcast or check out Abby bolt.com and find out how you can help keep this going forward. Thank you so much for everything you guys remember to lead with fire and choose the hard right over easy silence.

Speaker 1: 39:40

[inaudible].